Curse

Ajax91 · Feb 23, 2010, 11:00 PM // 23:00

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...views/20100219

Just saw the new changes to Heal as One. Tried beastmaster out on my ranger before, was quite fun but returned back to my beloved glass arrows (

).

I peronsally will be trying a Beastmaster again though, to see if HaO is decent, surely looks it to me,

Just wondering what others opinnions are on this are?

Khaal · Feb 24, 2010, 12:24 AM // 00:24

I currently run Heal as One with Mark of Pain for Fort Aspenwood and Heal as One with Great Dwarf Weapon in PvE. I don't know if it really needs a buff (though not needing the comfort animal/charm animal will be a nice free slot in my bar). I've even run my HaO/GDW in HM a few times.

Ugh · Feb 24, 2010, 01:36 AM // 01:36

The new HaO looks mediocre to me. I don't think it would be worth giving up Elunge.

I would've prefered that they reduced the life stealing a bit and gave some to you and your pet.

ac1inferno · Feb 24, 2010, 01:54 AM // 01:54

It's really not worth giving up your elite slot for a pet. [[Comfort Animal (PvE)] is enough and the only real reason why anyone would use a pet in PvE is for [[Never Rampage Alone]. And no real build in PvP uses pets except thumpers and [[Rampage as One] is too good to give up.

Introverted Dimensions · Feb 24, 2010, 01:57 AM // 01:57

I'd rather have enraged lunge over heo.

If the pet AI wasn't so bad, I'd actually consider running a bm build.

Amy Awien · Feb 24, 2010, 02:32 AM // 02:32

What's so bad about it, compared to other AI? You have the pet's controle console, that's more then you can say about henchmen.

Shadow Feathers · Feb 24, 2010, 06:00 AM // 06:00

Personally I liked the old pet AI.... I hate having to select a target for the pet everytime and once he's done watch him run back until I select another target. If a pet is set for attack they should attack anything that comes into that aggro circle, unless you select a target it will stand there.

Even with the quirks the pet AI does have it still serves a few roles in P vs E and can still be put to use applying conditions, tanking ( depending on the build used ) but there is still a lot of room for improvement on them.

Now as far as the Heal as One....... best heal you can get for a ranger in my opinion and if you're playing strictly P vs E there's oh so many other builds and ways to play using that then the current flavors mentioned. I have to agree though it is a rough decesion to give up your elite slot for a pet but knowing the limitations of the Pet AI and the various skills you can obtain strictly for P vs E, I can see a BM build working. I've always used pets with my ranger to beat the hell out of Bison in EOTN using this elite.

Ajax91 · Feb 24, 2010, 07:34 AM // 07:34

Quote:

And no real build in PvP uses pets except thumpers and [[Rampage as One] is too good to give up.

What about R/P packhunters? I only do low end PvP, so my bad if your talking high end stuff, but i see a fair few of these, and they can get the job if the player is decent enough.

Quote:

If the pet AI wasn't so bad, I'd actually consider running a bm build.

Quote:

I hate having to select a target for the pet everytime

The pet AI isnt the best admittedly, im trying a bm out using enraging lunge atm though, and i do have to lock the pet sometimes, but majority of the time it'll follow the target im calling, as long as i call a new target as soon as the old ones dead. I tend to find if you dont call targets, it'll just run off and attack whoever it fancies.

Quote:

I don't think it would be worth giving up Elunge

Using Elunge atm, can see your point, cheap spammable DW is very very NOICE.

Amy Awien · Feb 24, 2010, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajax91

What about R/P packhunters?

I doubt this change will make it into PvP, to quote: In PvE, Heal as One Heal as One is being updated ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Feathers

I hate having to select a target for the pet everytime and once he's done watch him run back until I select another target.

When set to 'guard' he should auto-attack whatever target you hit (first), it's slow in changing in this mode, but that can be an advantage. If you don't hit stuff (be it with arrows or spells) it will not attack. Much like the old AI, though it seems less eager to charge in then it used to be (which is an advantage when pulling).

When using the 'attack' mode it will attack the specified target, until that target is dead, the pet is dead, you call it back or walk away too far. Once that happens it will return to the mode it was in before you set it to attack mode. If that happens to be 'heel' mode, then it will indeed return to you, which sounds like what youdescribe.

Shadow Feathers · Feb 24, 2010, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Simply put it needs to think better, I know how the AI works. Like I mentioned I do use BM builds in certain areas but I havn't found an all around build that I would want to use on a regular basis due to how it does act. There's also the oh so lovely times when the little bastage gets hung up on a corner somewhere and you're left with a skill bar that has some skills on it you can't use because your pet is back behind you somewhere watering a tree or pecking in the gravel.

MaedTur · Feb 24, 2010, 03:55 PM // 15:55

What about the lifestealing effect that equipping this skill will bring? Does that mean that as long as you have the skill equipped your pet will do 5...15 lifestealing with every attack?

Amy Awien · Feb 24, 2010, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Probably, it wouldn't be of much use otherwise.

Del · Feb 24, 2010, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

The new HaO looks mediocre to me. I don't think it would be worth giving up Elunge.

I would've prefered that they reduced the life stealing a bit and gave some to you and your pet.

OFC not, why use meager life stealing when you can just use your pet to demolish things extremely efficiently.

MasterSasori · Feb 24, 2010, 04:31 PM // 16:31

HaO is better and gives you more build compression. However, its still not as good as Enraged Lunge.

You really don't need that extra heal if you built your group right or if you have a half decent monk. A Ranger, likely /P secondary, have stances, high ele armor, shield, and high HP will so survivability is excellent anyway.

Ugh · Feb 24, 2010, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Pets would be ridiculous in PvP without bad AI.

Pets automatically switching targets makes beastmasters become brainless buttonmashers (alliteration intended).

Pets not waiting 1-2 seconds between attacks after reaching a target makes a pet into a (semi-)free, inescapable frontliner with a permanent speed boost, a one-track mind, and the ability to be rezzed instantly. In PvE, it makes them effective tanks.

Chthon · Feb 24, 2010, 09:45 PM // 21:45

After a little more thought, maybe this skill is somewhat useful.

It's great bar compression, but mostly compression of unimportant stuff.

The starting point is Comfort, which is Pet Heal + Pet Rez.
Going to HaO adds...

...improved Pet Heal. But you don't need a Pet Heal since they're pretty durable and incur no DP in PvE.
...a Self-Heal. But you don't need a Self-Heal in PvE.
...additional Pet Heal from the life steal. Again, you don't need Pet Heal.
...DPS from the life steal. This is worthwhile.
...a free non-elite skillslot from compression. This is worthwhile.

The cost is that you lose Enraged Lunge.

How bad is that? A lot depends on how much you're getting out of the DW. If you're applying a fresh DW every time you hit with it, you have almost 3x the DPS as if you're hitting an already DW-ed target every time.

Enraged Lunge DPS @16beast:
Always Applying Fresh DW: 34.09800
Never Applying Fresh DW: 14.09800
Half and Half: 24.09800

So, can we match that with the DPS from HaO plus the open non-elite slot?

Assuming that (a) official wiki is correct and pet attack base speed is 2sec and not 2.15sec, and (b) HaO will do 17 life steal at 16beast, then
HaO DPS:
@25% IAS: 11.3333333
@33% IAS: 12.6865672

That's more or less on par ELunge's never-applies fresh-DW figure, but way behind the always-applies-fresh-DW figure. That tells us a couple of things:
First, if you're going to be tending more towards never applying a fresh DW (either because the team has lots of other DW or because the team kills slowly so you end up using ELunge twice on a target, or whatever), then HaO is going to be better, since you can certainly manage more than 2 or 3 DPS from the free skillslot.
First and half, if condition removal is heavy enough that the DW isn't sticking, HaO is probably going to be better.
Second, it's probably impossible to beat ELunge if you are always applying a fresh DW every time you use ELunge. The other DW skills available to you have much longer recharges, and nothing does that much direct damage either.
Third, if Elunge is applying a fresh DW around half the time, then it's a pretty close call. For example:

Brutal Strike DPS @16beast:
Below 50%: 19.68400
Above 50%: 9.84200
Half and Half: 14.76300

HaO(33%IAS) + BrutalStrike(Half and Half) = 27.4495672
versus 24.09800 for ELunge(Half and Half)

Bottom line: HaO(+freespace) is going to be roughly equivalent to ELunge at times when you could count on ELunge applying a fresh DW about half the time; HaO will be better than ELunge when ELunge would do worse than that at producing DW's; and HaO will be worse than ELunge when ELunge would do better than that at producing DW's.

Ugh · Feb 25, 2010, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Bottom line: HaO(+freespace) is going to be roughly equivalent to ELunge at times when you could count on ELunge applying a fresh DW about half the time; HaO will be better than ELunge when ELunge would do worse than that at producing DW's; and HaO will be worse than ELunge when ELunge would do better than that at producing DW's.

Interesting. In that case, I may actually use HaO on occasion.

I wish MelAssault worked like its description said it did. Then HaO would be amazing.

Gallimimus Guy · Mar 01, 2010, 10:27 PM // 22:27

I've tried Heal as One on my beastmaster build with the new changes, but still prefer Enraged Lunge for deep wound and I find it does more dmg.

I go with:
Enraged Lunge
Predator's Pounce
Brutal Strike
Scavenger Strike
Call of Haste
Call of Protection
Comfort Animal
and Strength of Honor

with
Beast Mastery: 12+1+3
Expertise 8+1
and Smiting 10

with a max energy and +30hp smiting staff to maximize damage.

I like Predator's Pounce for the spammable damage with low energy along with pet survivability, and SoH works great with Call of Haste for additional damage, and the IMS also alleviates bad pet AI by a small degree. I've tried Great Dwarf Weapon, but always found it cumbersome and clumsy to be constantly reapplying on your pet.

I think that it does pretty good, but I really have no idea what good damage would be, and would like comments and criticism please

Chthon · Mar 02, 2010, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Turns out HaO got slightly higher lifesteal than I was expecting. It almost exactly matches the DPS from Enraged's damage component. The big question is whether you can use that free slot to more effect than Enraged's deep wound component. And that, of course, depends on how often you're getting a fresh target who doesn't already have a DW, and how well the DW are sticking once you inflict them.

Overall, I'm finding HaO a lot more respectable than my first impression.

Introverted Dimensions · Mar 08, 2010, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Wanted to try out the new HaO so I've been running this lately. Thinking of dropping IATS! for Brutal Strike.

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http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:PvXDecode

Thoughts?